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Community Edition

Discussion in 'Rules & Mechanics' started by Anthony, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. Anthony

    Anthony Community Edition Editor
    Necromunda Custodian

    This topic serves as a place to keep updated on the development of the Community Edition fan rules. There's download links, update news, proposed rule changes and you're welcome to post minor suggestions and queries, though try and keep this topic strictly related to CE-specific rules.

    If you have a rules query or house rule suggestion that is equally applicable to the official rules then please make a new topic instead of posting it in here so the wider community can respond to it. Additionally, non-minor rule suggestions should also be posted as a separate topic with the [NCE] tag to make topic searching much easier.

    Necromunda: Community Edition - updated: October 2016
    Outlanders: Community Edition - updated: October 2016

    You can find a log of all previous rule changes here.

    Proposed Update Changes
    Below is a list of potential changes for the next update. Note this list is liable to change based on the community discussions.

    New rules and changes to existing rules which modify their intent.

    - Terrain: The table edges are considered impassable ground unless the scenario specifically says fighters may move off it.
    - Hiding: A model must be within 1" of concealable terrain to hide. The model must be behind cover (partial cover isn't enough). The requirements for staying hidden are the same as when going into hiding.
    - Blast Weapons: Obstructing terrain is ignored for purposes of scattering blasts and working out whether a fighter is hit by a template. If the center of the blast scatters outside of the table edge then it dissipates harmlessly.
    - Leadership - Breaking Fighters: If multiple fighters are required to take a nerve test then the owning player can choose the order they are taken. - Broken Fighters: The model must move towards the closest point at which he can hide. If the fighter can draw line of sight to any enemy models at the start of his move then you must determine the closest point at which he can hide that does not move him closer to the nearest enemy model he can draw line of sight to. Breaking from HtH: The free hit doesn't apply in the case of a multiple combat (i.e. if all enemy fighters flee then only the last suffers a hit).
    - Falling: If a fighter is pinned in mid-air then he falls.
    - Fear & Terror: If the model has multiple rules that cause fear/terror then each subsequent rule will incur a -1 Ld penalty to the nerve tests he inflicts through fear/terror.
    - Shotgun - Scatter Shot: The additional hits against models in base contact with the target model only apply if the target was originally hit.
    - Lascannon: Replace Terrifying Force with: Ignores 1 point of cover when firing.
    - Hallucinogen - Traitors! - Replace with: The fighter does not move that turn but shoots at a friend. The opposing player may pivot the model and shoot following the usual rules except treats friendly fighters as enemy and vice-versa.
    - Gas Grenades: If the center of the gas drifts outside of the table edge then it dissipates harmlessly. Drifting gas goes through obstructing terrain.
    - Hallucinogen - Over There!: The victim's opponent may choose the weapon being fired, including ammo types, firing modes, etc, if applicable.
    - Smoke Bombs: Drifting smoke goes through obstructing terrain.
    - Bionic Eye: You must choose which eye is replaced.
    - Concealed Blade - 1: The capturing gang keeps the captive's equipment.
    - Grapnel: If the fighter is pinned or downed mid-move then he is still auto-winched to the end point.
    - Serious Injuries - Missing Games: Missing fighters don't count for upkeep purposes.
    - Blinded In One Eye: Revert to official ("Randomly determine which eye"). If an already blinded eye is blinded again then treat it as a Full Recovery.
    - Dodge: Revert to official (provides a save against HtH hits).
    - True Grit: When rolling you may choose whether the bonus applies or not.
    - Crack Shot: Revert to official.
    - Gunfighter: Must choose to use the second shot immediately after the first has been resolved, or not at all. The second shot suffers a -1 to hit penalty.
    - Territory: You must declare all the territories to be worked before rolling their income.
    - Archeotech Hoard: How many dice to roll is chosen when the territory is worked (i.e. not when territories are declared). You must choose the number of dice being rolled before rolling them.
    - Bounty Hunter - Claim Bounty: Replace the 2-3 result with 'the fine is equivalent to the fighter's base fighter cost plus Experience points. Is returned together with his equipment (if any)'.
    - Playing a Campaign Game - Post Battle Sequence: Working a territory, looting a territory and foraging are all done before all other income is worked out. Scenario Modifiers: The higher rated gang cannot modify the roll, but may still reduce the lower rated gang's modifiers as normal.
    - Disbanding Gangs: Fighters currently captured by the disbanding gang are returned to their gangs.
    - Scavengers - The Monster Roll - 1: The victim's opponent may choose the weapon, including ammo types, firing modes, etc, if applicable.
    - Hit & Run: Loot counter and water still must be placed at least 12" away from the table edges and each other. A Scrag target treats all OOA results as Down unless they are from HtH combat. Stick Up: If the defender doesn't have enough income then it comes out of their stash. If there's still not enough then the attacker still gets the full amount. The initial defenders can be placed anywhere. A reinforcement roll of 5-6 allows the attacker to choose the edge.
    - Shoot Out: The groups cannot deploy within 1" of terrain. Revert to official ("may move up to").

    - Foraging: You must declare all the fighters to be sent foraging before rolling their income.
    - Blade Venom: Its benefits only apply against living targets.
    - Caravan: Special deployment cannot be used by either gang.
    - Loot & Pillage: Special deployment cannot be used by the defenders.
    - The Hunters: Change "roughly in the middle" to "within 16" of the middle". Change the deployment rules of the two groups to follow the Shoot Out rules, except attacking models must deploy within 2" of everyone in the group. For the defenders in hiding replace "must remain in cover and end each turn hidden" to "cannot run or charge".
    - Heist: Cannot be played against outlaws. Special deployment cannot be used by the defenders.
    - Pit Slave: Has the Escape Artist skill.
    - Wyrd: Using a power that requires an Ld test counts as shooting for hiding purposes. Jog Trigger Finger: Replace the effect of the wyrd power with: "This is worked out as described in the Hallucinogen grenade's Over There! rules, however, the model may still move and fire during his turn as normal".
    - Scavvies - Extra Arm: Can use a two-handed weapon and a one-handed combat weapon for +1 attack dice. Change "basic" to "basic/special". Two Heads: Must choose to use the second shot immediately after the first has been resolved, or not at all.
    - Ratskin Renegade: Spirit Lore - Transfer Prowess: You cannot choose the Shaman as one of the transferring ratskins. Spirit Walk: The Leadership test is done at the start of the turn. Its range is reduced to 16". Hidden fighters cannot be targeted.
    - Spyrers: If the Spyrers are playing a scenario were the amount of fighters deployed at the start of the game is limited, then they deploy half the amount (round fractions up). Spyrer Equipment: Yeld can use Gunfighter. Web Spinner: Malcadons can ignore entangled enemies for purposes of choosing a target. Laser Gauntlets: Revert to official (Short Range 10", Long Range 20"). Experience: Change starting Experience to 11. Power Boosts - Combat Neuroware: Counts as a characteristic advance (i.e. so cannot take them over the maximum profile). Yeld Power Boost - Laser Magnifier: Short Range is changed to 12", Long Range is changed to 24".
    - Pit Slaves - Chief: Cannot take Gunfighter. Pit Fighter: Cannot take Ambush.

    Changes to the wording of rules to remove ambiguity.

    - Movement: Clarify charging models are moved during the Chargers section, and you don't have to declare all charges first before then moving them.
    - Overwatch: Clarify you can only shoot during your opponent's movement phase.
    - Multiple Wounds: Clarify a down fighter that suffers additional wounds is worked out in the same way.
    - Shooting at a Fighter Who is Down: Clarify flesh wound rolls will not reinstate their Wounds.
    - Blast Weapons: Clarify the weapon is unusable if a Hit and Misfire are rolled.
    - Massive Weapon - Mighty Blow: Clarify the penalty only applies against one opponent if he charged multiple enemies.
    - Web Pistol - Capture: Clarify the out of ammo caveat only applies at the time of the OOA, and the capture follows Serious Injuries conventions (i.e. Escape Artist still works).
    - Hallucinogen - Over There!: Clarify the victim must be able to see the target he's shooting. Clarify you roll to hit and wound as normal.
    - Bionics: Clarify bionic eyes/arms/legs/chest can only be implanted if they have the requisite injury.
    - Auto-repairer: Clarify it's disrupted, damaged, or destroyed by a Raid the same as the territory.
    - Infra-red Goggles: Clarify "arc of sight" as "must be able to see".
    - Grav Chute: Clarify "takes no damage" even applies to falls greater than 10". Clarify the fighter is still pinned by the fall.
    - Suspensor: Reword to use Heavy Weapons terminology ("Move Or Fire", "if he moved during his movement phase").
    - Gang Recruitment: If a captured fighter is returned without his free knife then he is given another.
    - Catfall: Clarify the usual jumping down restriction where he must have enough move to cover the fall still applies.
    - Fixer: Clarify the skill can only be used once per game.
    - Vents: Clarify "building" as "buildings".
    - Guilder Contact: Clarify multiple contacts doesn't increase the bonus amount.
    - Friendly Doc: Clarify you may choose whether to and the order Dead fighters are sent to the Doc.
    - Hired Guns - Hire Fee: Clarify the recurring fee is paid after the gangs usual upkeep has been paid but before visiting the trading post. Clarify you cannot change or remove their gear.
    - Bounty Hunter - Claim Bounty: Clarify the usual captive rules apply (i.e. the fugitive is only turned in if a rescue fails or isn't attempted). Clarify a "Fined or Sentenced" fighter returns with his equipment.
    - Scavengers - The Monster Roll - 1: Clarify the weapon as a ranged weapon and the ammo type, firing mode, etc, are also random.
    - The Raid - Sounding the Alarm: Clarify spotting raiders can be done at any time. Clarify a combat noise roll is made for each sentry after they have fought all of their opponents, and is based on the amount of raiders they fought.
    - Shoot Out: Clarify the closest enemy fighters are set up 16" apart, and all fighters must set up within 1" of all models in the group. Clarify fighters don't have to move and they cannot end their move further away from the enemy. Clarify they must remain in full view when moving. Clarify a move-or-fire weapon can only be fired if he didn't move in the last build-up phase.

    - Foraging: Clarify "seriously injured" as "out of action".
    - Wyrd - Clarify the required Leadership test to use a power is taken immediately before the power is used. Displacement: Clarify the fighter cannot be targeted from overwatch mid-move.
    - Scavvies - Cannibal Stew: Clarify you keep their equipment.
    - Redemptionists - Novice - Experience: Clarify these rules as the same as House Gang Juves.
    - Ratskin Renegade - Ratskin Brave - Experience: Clarify these rules as the same as House Gang Juves. Spirit Lore - Transfer Prowess: Clarify hired guns aren't eligible.
    - Spyrers - Chameleon Wings: Clarify the Yeld doesn't have be completely stationary to hide.

    Non-rule related changes, such as typos.

    - Typos (pg 10 "theremerchant", pg 91 "then the you").
    - Wound Chart: Change Strength "10" to "10+".
    - Plasma Pistol: Replace "all shots with the gun have" with "the shot has".
    - Shotgun: Separate the Scatter Shot and Hot Shot Shell special rules from their fluff and add keywords.
    - Heavy Weapons: Rename "Special Rules" to "Move Or Fire". Add encumbrance and 1-per fighter rules.
    - Plasma Grenade: The "height" rule should be in red.
    - Bionics: Injuries suffered to that region are treated as a Full Recovery result.
    - Grav Chute: Use Catfall terminology regarding jumping restrictions.
    - Gang Recruitment - Leader Only Weapons: Change "buying" to "buying and equipping".
    - Serious Injuries: Remove reference to being "so badly injured they have to retire".
    - Experience - Juves: Change "new skills" to "new skill types".
    - Skill Tables: Juves (Goliath/Orlock) incorrectly have Combat instead of Ferocity.
    - Gunfighter: Change "carries" to "fires".
    - Rare Trade Chart: Remove unnecessary extra rolls (Needle Weapon, 41-46, 51-56).
    - Bounty Hunter: Add that outlaws cannot hire them.
    - Ratskin Scout - Advances: Sneak Up and Infiltration numbers need red formatting.
    - Playing a Campaign Game - Post Battle Sequence - 4: Add a reference to upkeep costs.
    - Scenarios: Move attacker/defender assigning to before the Terrain section. Remove instances of "cannot bottle out voluntarily".
    - Ambush: Clean up the Starting The Game section (e.g. The D6s are added together, better explain what happens if no group was allowed to be placed freely).
    - The Raid: The reinforcements table edge roll should be 2-5.
    - Rescue Mission: Clean up grammar in relation to multiple captives.
    - Shoot Out: Terrain section restriction is redundant.

    - Typos (p48 "confering", p51 "tum", p58 "leeched").
    - Images (p41 background image clipped).
    - Change instances of "(i.e)" and "(e.g.)" to "- ie" and "- eg" to conform with established grammar.
    - The Hunters: Terrain section restriction is redundant.
    - Wyrd - Wall of Flame: Change instances of "ruler" to "string".
    - Scenarios: Add relevant attacker/defender assigning. Remove instances of "cannot bottle out voluntarily".
    - Ratskin Renegade - Resilient: Rename to Resilience. Captured Territory: Change all instances of "Archeotech sites" to "Archeotech Hoards". Change "captured by" to "owned by". Isolationists: Describe the "offered D3 rare items" more thoroughly.
    - Spyrers - Spyrer Equipment: Malcadons never have access to Gunfighter.
    - Pit Slave - Injury: Remove "by their Technos."

    So just what is this CE rulebook anyway?
    The NCE started as a personal project to compile the house rules we used in our campaign into a rulebook that we could print off. After making it public some people showed an interest in using it themselves and so I began updating it based on their feedback. The OCE was compiled much later to fully incorporate the original Outlander rules as part of the NCE.

    What are its aims?
    To better balance the various weapons, skills, gangs, etc, to clarify ambiguities, patch up rule holes, as well as minor tweaks to improve general gameplay. There's also a few new toys to play with too.

    When does it get updated?
    It used to be updated in irregular intervals, but now it's going to be updated annually at the end of each year.

    Can I edit out changes I don't like?
    Yes, the PDFs are unprotected and can be freely edited so you're welcome to change it to suite your group's preferences. The NCE also uses the official Necromunda Online Rulebook as a template so it's easier to selectively use pages. Note there seems to be an issue with editing the NCE using Adobe Acrobat as discussed here.

    Are you going to add more gangs, expansions, etc?
    No I'm not really looking to include substantial extra rules unless there is a solid gameplay reason and involves minimal rule changes. The aim is more to just provide a balanced core rule base that players can then add to themselves in whatever ways they prefer.
    #1 Anthony, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017 at 5:24 PM
    dabbk, Ben_S, Jembo17 and 4 others like this.
  2. GuessRange

    GuessRange New Member

    Just a quick thought. Going over the latest version of NCE I was constantly flicking between the lists of updated details, the old NCE and the new NCE just to make sure.

    At the moment everything that has been altered from the LRB(ORB?) is coloured. Would it be possible to draw a line in the sand so to speak and make it all black, and set it at a 'version' number. Then any generally smaller adjustments that are made could be coloured to indicate the changes to wording etc?
    OrkishDecker likes this.
  3. jimjimjimmyjim

    jimjimjimmyjim Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    I agree with this thought, I have often had rules disputes between ppl in my campaign simply because my opponent has an older rule book than I do.

    It might be nice to have a clear version number
    OrkishDecker likes this.
  4. rourke

    rourke New Member

    Can I ask about the reasoning behind removing the overwatch clause from the pinning rules?
    Its removal seems to be unnecessarily harsh on models that get hit in overwatch, forcing them to miss not only the current turn but their following turn as well.

    I know you said in another thread that you felt the -1 to hit on overwatch made the situation unlikely but I have to disagree, a high bs model can usually cope with the negative modifier and take an enemy model out of the game for effectively 2 turns.

    I would suggest reinstating the overwatch clause in the pinning rules.

    (also, thanks for all your hard work Anthony, love the CE!)
  5. jimjimjimmyjim

    jimjimjimmyjim Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    I haven't gotten yet thru this new book. Mainly because I have alot of new players and I don't wanna confuse them with new rules.

    I must of overlooked the over watch rules but if this is what happens I have to say its over the top...

    Tho like he said. Great work on the NCE
  6. Blood Donor

    Blood Donor Executive Officer in Charge of the 2014 Bake Sale
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Yak Philanthropist

    Would constantly allowing the previous version of the NCE to be downloaded alongside the newest version allow for the red text that has strikethrough to be removed from the pages and create more room or is there no need for the extra space it may provide?

    EDIT: In a completed state, would the Event Cards ever grace the last pages of the NCE with dotted lines around them to promote cutting them out and using them or are they too much their own entity?
    #6 Blood Donor, Jul 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2014
  7. Anthony

    Anthony Community Edition Editor
    Necromunda Custodian

    Well the strikethough text isn't version specific, it's just an official rule that's been removed instead of being changed or replaced. And yeah the Event Cards are their own separate entity really so I won't be adding it in.

    The update is dated on the front cover which somewhat serves as a version number. Having all changes in red text is extremely useful for players new to the NCE so I'd rather not change that and every rule change is listed in the updatelog. I do sometimes change non-rule wording but that's only either because there's some sort of typo or due to layout issues like trying to fit in additional rules, either way the rule shouldn't change.

    I don't think there's much of a problem with pinning when overwatch is used conventionally (i.e. a fighter can't see an enemy or the enemy is too difficult to hit so sets up on overwatch hoping for a better shot), since there are ways for the opponnent to mitigate against it and he's potentially wasting a turn. I do agree though there is a specific issue with high BS looking to exploit it by waiting to shoot at the very start of the opponent's turn thus effectively pinning for two turns, but the -1 to-hit means you can't use it as a widespread tactic since you need a pretty good BS otherwise the risk isn't worth it.

    The problem with having a clause just for overwatch is that it's pretty unintuitive to have a situation where a fighter gets shot and auto-recovers from pinning, while the fighter next to him suffers a hit from any other means yet remains pinned. An alternative would be to say fighters always recover pinning at the end of their turn, but then you lose the ability to use pinning as a punishment which can be pretty handy.

    So I do agree there is still a specific issue where high BS fighters can abuse the pinning/overwatch rules, but currently I can't see a decent simple solution so in the mean time I'd prefer to leave the official rules in place and just rely on players not being jerks.
  8. rourke

    rourke New Member

    I see what you mean about the other sources of pinning still causing longer pinning.
    One possible alternative would be to change the wording of pinning to read along the lines of "if a model is pinned at the end of their movement phase they will recover from pinning in the recovery phase"

    To me this seems reasonable, if a model is pinned in the movement phase, either by overwatch or falling, then their movement is cut short and they cannot shoot or fight, effectively missing a turn.
    If a model is pinned in their shooting phase through weapon overheat and the like then they have already had a chance to move fully and also shoot so they should miss the following turn.

    This way both models would miss one turn of action and prevent overwatch becoming too powerful.
  9. Anthony

    Anthony Community Edition Editor
    Necromunda Custodian

    Yeah that would be another option, but i think these sorts of rules are always going to throw up oddities. For example, a fighter could become pinned at the very end of his move, so why wouldn't he be pinned while a fighter who didn't move and whose weapon explodes is pinned when fluff-wise they take place in the same time-frame? But as I mentioned, I think the regular pinning rules for overwatch are okay so a solution to the specific beardy problem would ideally only affect that issue as I just don't think it's a cheesy tactic that's common enough to warrant chopping up the general pinning rules.
  10. jimjimjimmyjim

    jimjimjimmyjim Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    I wrote a query in another thread I started called bottle out, if you wish you can read it there.

    From this question tho I have to ask.

    In the event that 2 or more rules occur at the same time, is it up to the owning player whose turn it is to decide which rule occurs before the next rule occurs or do they apl take place at the same time?
  11. obar

    obar Winged Monkey
    Staff Member

    #11 obar, Jul 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2015
  12. jimjimjimmyjim

    jimjimjimmyjim Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    ^ Thanks for that :)
  13. Anthony

    Anthony Community Edition Editor
    Necromunda Custodian

    It would be up to the players to work out for themselves.
  14. jimjimjimmyjim

    jimjimjimmyjim Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    Hmmmm I had hoped you would have said yes and just mentioned a small line of rules at the start of the NCE to say the owning player decides the order... As this is not the first time I have played a game like this where something similar has come up. The only difference was back then I played the LRB, but I thought the NCE would work to ask difficult questions like this to better improve the rule book in a collaborative work from the community...

    Ok I guess that would have to do.
  15. KillingTime

    KillingTime Ganger

    #15 KillingTime, Oct 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2015
  16. Gorkamunda

    Gorkamunda Adeptus Ineptus
    Staff Member Gorkamorka Warboss Yak Philanthropist Yak Comp 2nd Place

    http://www.yakromunda.com/forums/http:/ ... ic.php?t=0

    A couple of questions raised in this thread. Mainly point 2 & 3. They're not exactly huge issues, but I thought I'd leave it up to you to decide if they should be clarified in upcoming revisions, or if one should just leave it up to house ruling.
    #16 Gorkamunda, Nov 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2015
  17. Anthony

    Anthony Community Edition Editor
    Necromunda Custodian

    2) Well the rule is "down at the end of the game", afaik there's no stipulation of whether he needs to be on the table or not - so in this instance he would still suffer a serious injury on 4+. I guess there's a question of do fighters off-table still roll on the injury table in the recovery phase (so they stand a chance of recovering to a flesh wound thus avoiding a serious injury), but I'm inclined to leave that up to the players to decide.

    3) Well by the book I don't believe it's allowed since technically off-board doesn't count as "cover". But yeah I guess it's interesting in that WFB/40k allow fleeing off table so I'm not adverse to the idea. I'd need to see what the community here thinks before making a change but I can't imagine it makes much difference. Maybe something like if the fighter can't reach cover but can reach the edge of the table then he flees off the table - though can't imagine it would do his gang rep much good.

    Yeah the autogun vs lasgun crops up often and I do agree the current solution isn't perfect, but I don't believe the +2 is a better alternative. Ultimately the basic weapon usage depends a lot on the amount/type of terrain and playing styles so I'm more prepared to just leave it up to the players to figure out what works best for their group - though of course if a better alternative comes along...
    #17 Anthony, Nov 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2015
  18. KillingTime

    KillingTime Ganger

    I wasn't at all wedded to the +2 idea, and many other ideas were discussed.
    Removing the -1 overwatch penalty is the one my group are currently play testing...
  19. LuckGod

    LuckGod Gang Hero

    I would imagine removing the lasguns -1 save mod would work. Its the only S3 weapon with a save mod to my knowledge
  20. Anthony

    Anthony Community Edition Editor
    Necromunda Custodian

    Had a spot of free time so got in a quick update. In the case of the Rescue stuff since there wasn't much of a consensus I thought I'd just go down the simplest route of treating it pretty much exactly like a Raid. I know there are more exciting ways of playing it but it doesn't seem people like the scenario much anyway so figured I'd just try and provide a simple rule base for you to embellish as you wish.

    - The Bottle Roll: Fighters that voluntarily leave the fight by moving off a table edge (e.g. attackers in a raid), no longer count as down/OOA for purposes of the Bottle roll.
    - Exploding Weapons: Save Modifier is also reduced by -1 if applicable.
    - Berserker Chip: Clarify it can only be used once per game.
    - Captured: Clarify a rescue must also be refused before being sold to guilders.
    - Rescue: Decision to rescue must be made before rolling on the Scenario Table, also reworded to emphasise 'refusal'. Clarify a captive is 'rescued' when cut free. Clarify captives can still use bionics when freed. The game now ends once all captives and attackers are either down, OOA or left the table (instead of ending when just the captives leave the table).

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