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Shooting when in Frenzy

Discussion in 'Rules & Mechanics' started by Stubram, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    This is so basic, I'm sure I must have missed something.

    All the Frenzy stuff comes into effect once the model is within 8", right?

    So, if I don't want my guy to Frenzy, I can just keep him out of harms way, and he will operate like any normal ganger (i.e. Moving, shooting,hiding etc)?
     
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  2. Stoof

    Stoof Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    Yup. It's not necessarily 8", just charging range, so if he gains or loses a point of M it'll change, but essentially yes.
     
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  3. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    Cool, cheers.

    Here's one to boggle the brain then - my Frenzy ganger has 'Leap' so his charge range could be 9" or 12".

    Would I roll first, to establish his 'zone of Frenzy', do I not include it, and assume 8", or do I go mad at 12" and generally end up falling short?

    Thematically, a ganger going frenzied who is light on his feet (Leap) would probably try to use it.

    He's also got Berserk Charge, so I'm reading it that Frenzy doubles his Attacks, then Berskerk Charge doubles that, then I add one more for the additional weapon?
     
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  4. Stoof

    Stoof Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    I would say his frenzy doesn't trigger itself until he's within normal charge range (ie 2xM), but you can choose to use it yourself with Leap (which in NCE/LRB is +D6, giving 9" - 14" charge/run range based on a normal M4).

    LRB/ORB Berserk charge is x2 attack dice "on profile", which I would read as the stat you've already x2'd from Frenzy (or vice versa).
    NCE Berserk charge is +D3 attack dice.

    So ORB/LRB it's Ax2 for frenzy, x2 for Berserk charge, +1 for extra weapon. Character with 2 h2h weapons and 1 attack will roll 5 dice.

    So in NCE it's 2x A for Frenzy, +D3 attack dice for berserk charge, +1 attack dice for extra h2h weapon.
    A character with 1 normal attack and 2 h2h weapons will roll on average 5 dice (low of 4, high of 6).

    Lots of scope for fumbles... or criticals... are you feeling lucky, punk?

    (I have seen a ganger with a base of 2A, x2 for frenzy, x2 for berserk charge, +1 for additional h2h. 9 dice. He fumbled a lot more than he criticalled despite it being 50/50 each way - to the point of it being a liability and his owner removed his h2h/pistol weapons and gave him a basic instead to reduce the dice to "just" 8.)
     
    #4 Stoof, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
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  5. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    legend - cheers dude. Just because the fluff says that chains are used by 'unhinged individuals' I've given one to this guy! Possible the worst weapon to give him but, dammit, it fits his style.

    I plan for him to cause chaos and die spectacularly.
     
  6. Domino

    Domino Ganger

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    @Stubram It's going to be interesting to see what happens if he does charge. I'm trying to work out how to deal with him should shooting not take him down.
    Perhaps I should pray to the God Emperor for his Attack dice to be 1's.
     
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  7. Stoof

    Stoof Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    That's just about all you can do! Hope he fumbles himself to death (much more likely with a chain/flail).
     
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  8. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    They don't call me 'Snake Eyes Stu' for nothin'.

    Ok no one calls me that.
     
    #8 Stubram, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
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  9. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    Oooh. Change of plan. I have three words for you -

    Giant

    Frickin

    Sword.

    If you're going to die, do it while berzerk and frenzied, hitting with strength 5.
     
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  10. Punktaku

    Punktaku Gang Hero

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    “if you’re gonna die, die with your boots on”
     
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  11. Stoof

    Stoof Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    Is he a Redemptionist/are you likely to ever capture one?

    Eviscerstor. 'Nuff said.
     
  12. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    Goliaths my man. There's a chance they'll be outlawed and go Chaos culty, but no Redemptionists
     
  13. Domino

    Domino Ganger

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    They're waiting in the wings with the Zealot, Father Jack Hackett itching to get to grips with his war cry 'Feck'.
    I'm planning on bringing them in once we start getting scummy outlaws and beasties going. Oh! And a new paint job. I've gone off the old one.
     
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  14. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder

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    That's an interesting question. I doubt the rules say anything conclusive. I'd be tempted by the thought that he should suffer Frenzy as soon as he might be able to charge an enemy - meaning in effect that you assume a maximum leap (though at that point you'd probably want to restrain him). But, on the other hand, I could see a case for saying he won't go berzerk until he's in certain charge range (meaning count the leap but at minimum distance).

    I know WFB and 40k moved over to random charge lengths at some point. Anyone know how they handled anything like frenzy? (Not that the rules of one GW game become the rules of others, but seeing how GW game designers handle something in one context may point to what they'd like have done in another where things are unclear.)
     
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  15. Domino

    Domino Ganger

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    Based on what I have read in ORB & LRB, I believe the intention is that Frenzy is based on your move rate for the 'must charge' and skills like leap just enable you to gain bonus movement.
    This doesn't prevent your character from going into Frenzy if he/she gets into H2H charging outside this range and using leap to get into combat.
    It gets a little fuzzy when you have to guess if your in charge range and so have to measure to find out circumventing the rule on guessing ranges.

    I would say you declare charge & roll for leap and your figure becomes subject to frenzy as he/she closes. If he/she makes it into combat, full frenzy ensues.

    Simples.
     
  16. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder

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    Yeah, I've always found this - and, more commonly, the 8" restriction on running - a little awkward.
     
  17. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    I didn't even know about it. Thematically and tactically, I like it. You can create zones of control, restricting movement much like tackle zones in Blood Bowl.
    However, implementing it sounds almost impossible, and really screws with the flow
     
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  18. spafe

    spafe Executive Officer in charge of Hats
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Yak Philanthropist Yak Comp 2nd Place

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    So, easiest way to do this... declare any charges you want to... do not measure. Then once all optional charges are declared, measure them to see who succeeded, and measure a 8" bubble from anyone with frenzy, anyone with it will also have to charge.

    Doesnt give anyone an advantage from pre measuring and lets you check what you would be able to anyway (as you can measure where the frenzied dude could 'run' too after charges are declared). The only time it gives any advantage is if you want your frenzy dude to charge, but dont declare, as he can then just check after. But thats quite rare I suspect, and I would imagine makes next to no difference to the overall balance of this glorious but already unbalanced game.
     
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  19. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder

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    It does change things if you have to declare all charges first though. Normally if you had two guys each about 8-9" from an enemy, you could try a charge with one then, if he fails, the other might decide not to charge but to shoot instead.

    And running is still tricky. Given that the model apparently knows he's too close to the enemy when within 8", it would make sense if you could pre-measure that. Otherwise you end up with situations where you say 'this guy will try to run if he can' - though if he knows he's so close to the enemy, he ought to know he's probably in charge range too...
     
  20. Stubram

    Stubram Gang Champion

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    @Domino - I'm up for following the 'proper' rules of having these 8" radius where gangers can't run. Looks like we'll have to get better at being more regimented with these phases. I reckon we'll have to prompt each other a bit, at least at first, until it becomes part of the process.
     

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