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Wounding hits for experience.

Discussion in 'Rules & Mechanics' started by Stubram, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Stubram

    Stubram Ganger

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    yo. Just played a game where my juve wounded an enemy ganger 3 times (rolled a 'man down' result every time) in close combat (he only had 1 wound to start with) We played it that he,s scored '3 wounding hits', and therefore gets 15 exp (5x3).

    This just feels wrong. I read elsewhere that you can't wound below 0 (duh!). So, in close combat, Would I get exp for each flesh wound (up to the point ws or bs became 0, defacto taking the enemy out), but only get one set of exp if The enemy ganger goes 'man down' or 'out', and all the other ,man down' and 'out rolls are wasted?
     
  2. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

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    Yep, your suggestion is basically how it works, although FWs don't count either.

    Eg say I score three unsaved wounds on a ganger with 1W. I get one experience award per wound I knock off him, in this case 1, and then roll the injury dice. No matter what I get, eg 3 downs results or 2 flesh wounds and 1 down, I still only get one experience award. Even if the lucky sod gets 3 flesh wounds and is returned to 1W I'd still only get one experience award, although I'd then be able to wallop him for more experience next turn :D.

    If he had 2W I would get two wounding hits etc.

    FWIW, it works slightly different for sustained fire, as you work through each shot sequentially rather than all hits being taken at once. So if my first shot causes an unsaved wound which is a flesh wound, I'd get an experience award. If my second shot also causes an unsaved wound, I would get a second experience award etc.
     
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  3. Stubram

    Stubram Ganger

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    I vaguely remember reading that FW don't earn exp, but couldn't find the reference. He (reasonably) pointed out that the rules say you get 5exp per wounding hit, (i.e. that makes me roll on the wounded table).
     
  4. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

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    The devil is in the detail here, at least for the NCE:

    "In hand-to-hand combat each wound inflicted confers an award until the model is reduced to zero Wounds"

    Page 109
     
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  5. cardyfreak

    cardyfreak Executive Officer in charge of Radishes
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Yak Supporter

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    @enyoss is bang on with his interpretation.
    It's changed from the ORB/LRB version where all hits in h2h were resolved individually.
    In ORB/LRB if you got three wounds on a W1 enemy, and those wounds were 'Down' and two 'flesh wounds', you would get 15xp; 5xp for each wound inflicted, and 5xp for each flesh wound (as per the FAQ).
    I believe the thinking behind this was that you could choose the order you wanted the wounds to be inflicted, so naturally any flesh wounds would be inflicted first.
    After a flesh wound, a model automatically recovers to W1, so then the next flesh wound is applied, the model recovers to W1, and finally the 'down' result is applied, meaning the target has taken three separate wounds as he has been yo-yo-ing between W0-W1 thanks to the flesh wounds.
    In the current NCE xp format, all wounds in h2h are resolved concurrently, so only the wounds that reduce a model to W0 award an xp bonus, with all resultant rolls on the wound table resolved at the same time.
    Thus, in the same example as above, the wound that causes the model to drop to W0 awards an xp bonus, and a roll on the wound table. The other two wounds only add extra rolls on the wound table.
    The end result would be 5xp to the victor, and a defeated model who is 'down' and has two 'flesh wounds'.
    Obviously if it was one-on-one combat, the 'down' result would also take the enemy OOA, but if multiple combat was in full flow the enemy would be 'down' and able to crawl away from combat.
     
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  6. Stubram

    Stubram Ganger

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    Excellent, thanks for the clarification. My opponent was using the ORB so the first one seems to be ok.

    One thing we didn't factor in was multiple rolls on the serious injuries table. If I rolled 3 'man down' results in close combat, does that mean he should roll 3 times on the serious injuries table?

    You may be already saying that above, but wanted to make sure, as I may be getting the wounds table (to see if the fighter gets a FW, Man Down, OA) or serious injuries (after battle permanent injuries)
     
  7. Azzabat

    Azzabat Hive Guilder
    Yak Philanthropist Yak Comp 2nd Place

    The only way a Flesh Wound would grant you more XP is if a fighter who is reduced to 0 wounds (and goes down) recovers to Flesh Wounded (getting 1 wound back for -1 BS & WS) and gets wounded again.

    I've done this before, taking the last wound off a hanger several times until he was WS / BS 0
     
  8. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
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    Couple of things here.

    First is the difference between injury rolls, versus recovery rolls. Both result in either a flesh wound, down, or out of action.

    Difference is that your opponent rolls the dice for injury rolls, and can roll several of them at once (as per your CC example).

    Recovery rolls, on the other hand, are made by the owning player in their recovery phase, and you only ever roll one dice per fighter (even if they went down three times earlier that turn due to eg losing CC, as per a variation on your example).

    Just in case that's what you were referring to.

    The second thing is that for serious injuries in the post game sequence, if you go out of action you roll on that table. Just once, no matter how many injury rolls might have taken you OOA in the game. Being OOA is a singular state, so you roll just once.

    Hope that helps! :)
     
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  9. Domino

    Domino Juve

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    The only multiple roll I can find on the Serious Injuries is upload_2017-8-8_23-50-44.png
    This would probably mean retiring the Ganger if you rolled a 6. If you rolled 21 again it would be a given.
     
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  10. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
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    Yeah, the NCE mitigates against exactly that - the D6 becomes D3+1, and further multiple injuries are rerolled.

    As for retiring gangers, we used to do it back in the day, but someone recently pointed out that there's no official rule for it in the ORB! Yet, I definitely did it at least once after rolling up exactly the situation you describe above (including a ganger with no fingers left! :D)
     
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  11. Stubram

    Stubram Ganger

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    Coolio. That makes a lot of sense. Have to say, I've never retired a ganger (or blood bowl player!). They all just limp along until they die!

    So, looks like I need to take back 2 of my juves 5 point exp increases, as they were for rolling 3 man Downs during a close combat.

    Curses!
     
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  12. Stubram

    Stubram Ganger

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    Domino - happy to stick to ORB if you like, tho let me know how you get on with the NCE edition.
     
  13. SirFrog

    SirFrog Ganger

    As an interesting side note, Multiple Injuries becomes hilarious during a grudge match, as Full Recovery becomes Bitter Enmity instead.
    We had a juve who rolled Multiple Injuries and got Bitter Enmity, Bitter Enmity, Impressive Scars and Horrible Scars.
     
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  14. p0dde

    p0dde Gang Champion
    Yak Philanthropist

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    That is stuff of legends!

    Also, an often overlooked aspect of wounding rules. When a fighter is downed, further flesh wounds, don't get the fighter back in action, unless the flesh wound was rolled during the recovery phase. If a Downed fighter is accidentally hit during combat, gets a wound and rolls flesh wound, it still gets -1 WS -1 BS, but it doesn't get back in action.
     
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  15. cardyfreak

    cardyfreak Executive Officer in charge of Radishes
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Yak Supporter

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    There can sometimes be confusion regarding the names of the tables in the game. For clarity, the INJURY TABLE is a d6 table:
    1- Flesh Wound
    2-5- Down
    6- OOA
    THE SERIOUS INJURY TABLE is a d66 table that is rolled on in the post-game sequence.
    The RECOVERY TABLE is exactly the same as the INJURY TABLE, but is rolled on during the players RECOVERY PHASE to see what happens to his injured fighters.

    Here's a little summary that may or may not be helpful, for yourselves or any new comers who stumble upon this topic!

    The only Injury table results that stack are flesh wounds. Three 'down' results is just down, and as @enyoss has already pointed out, one roll on the recovery table per ganger per recovery phase is all any ganger gets to change their status. They either go OOA, stay down, or recover to a flesh wound.
    There's a hierarchy to the way wounds work, so OOA trumps Down trumps Flesh Wound.

    OOA immediately removes the fighter from the battle. They MUST make a roll on the SERIOUS INJURY TABLE, and the fighter CANT work any territories, gain income in any way, or search for rare trade, EVEN IF THEY ROLL A FULL RECOVERY/SURVIVES AGAINST THE ODDS.

    DOWN means the fighter is placed face down and has a Wound value of zero. They can only crawl 2" and must make a roll on the RECOVERY TABLE on a single d6 during their RECOVERY PHASE.
    They can either recover to a FLESH WOUND, OR stay DOWN, OR bleed out and go OOA. Fighters that are DOWN can still be shot at, though they DO NOT count as the closest target. A DOWN fighter can be taken OOA. As per the FAQ (regarding ORB/LRB but NOT NCE), this would award 5xp if it is by a shot, but no award is given for CHARGING a DOWN model.
    Any further Injury Rolls of DOWN have NO EFFECT.
    A DOWN fighter can still accumulate FLESH WOUNDS, and as per the FAQ (regarding ORB/LRB but NOT NCE), these would attract 5xp.
    If a fighter is DOWN at the end of the battle, they don't necessarily have to roll on the serious injury table. At the end of the battle roll a d6 for any DOWN fighters; a 1-3 means they recover and DONT have to roll on the serious injury table, a 4-6 means they go OOA and MUST make a roll on the serious injury table.

    FLESH WOUND simply means the fighter has been winged and suffers -1 to both BS and WS stats. Their wound characteristic remains at 1 and the fighter is placed face up and is PINNED for a turn. After that they get up and fight as normal (though with the -1 penalty as described), and DO NOT need to make any further rolls on the INJURY TABLE. This is the only way a previously DOWN fighter can recover and fight on.
    However, Flesh Wounds have a cumulative effect that can take them OOA if they receive too many. In ORB/LRB, when BOTH a fighters WS AND BS reach ZERO, he goes OOA. In NCE, a fighter cannot be taken to less than 1WS/BS. When they are BOTH at 1, a further Flesh Wound takes them OOA.
    Fighters that have any amount of FLESH WOUNDS or are pinned at the end of the game DO NOT make rolls on the Serious Injury table and are free to work territories or search for rare trade as if they were never injured. Flesh Wounds only count for the game they are received and are not carried over to other games.

    No matter how many INJURY ROLLS a fighter makes during the game, they only make ONE roll on the SERIOUS INJURY table if they go OOA (either by rolling a 6 on the Injury Table or 4-6 if they were DOWN at the end of the game).
    Multiple Injuries is a Serious Injury Table result, one that has its own rules per ruleset, but it can only be rolled following the sole roll on the Serious Injuries Table.

    Hope this is clear and of use!
     
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  16. Stubram

    Stubram Ganger

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    That is some serious clarification dude, many thanks! Think I got it now.

    Luckily, my taking 10exp off my super juve only lost him one skill (and busted him back down from ganger to top juve). I rolled a d4 and just took one of the 4 skill increases off (Initiative, in case you were wondering).
     
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  17. cardyfreak

    cardyfreak Executive Officer in charge of Radishes
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    Haha sorry mate, it's just it's a really good question so there's an opportunity to clear it up for anyone on the future. And though it should be a simple answer, it's Necromunda so it has to be about 800 pages long cos nothing is straightforward with this game haha!
     
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  18. Azzabat

    Azzabat Hive Guilder
    Yak Philanthropist Yak Comp 2nd Place

    An excellent response @cardyfreak and one I've cut and paste to my notes section.

    On the subject of fighters that go OOA (Out Of Action) are they able to use any of their skills (Medic, Inventor etc.)?

    We play that NO, they cannot. Any model going OOA can do nothing except recover, but I'd be interested to hear how others play.
     
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  19. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
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    Yep, as @cardyfreak says it's a very good question, and isn't really answered well in the ORB.

    In fact, in early 1996, I found myself wondering why it worked the way you described when Warren G (it was 1996 after all, and it was gang warfare!), my best CC ganger with WS6 and Sprint, hit Exp 400 way before anyone else :D.
     
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  20. Stubram

    Stubram Ganger

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    Na dude, that was very much appreciated. There's so many ways to interpret the rules, and then there's the various different editions, and all of the interpretations from them....
     

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